Well, I have never been one who believed online sites were rigged, and I have played at Pokerstars and Ladbrokes for a number of years and fully enjoy the quality of play.

Thought i'd have a look at PKR and check out what it was about. Been on here for two days only and played about 18 SNG's.
I know that's not many games played, but I have watched PKR TV on YouTube and the same occurs. I am afraid PKR will turn people off of online poker and probably poker all together. If ever there was reason to believe a poker RNG was faulty it would be PKR's.

After 10 SNG's I found I can call the river card that is going to bust me from a table even if I am a huge fav.
Never have I been busted 18 times to rivered suck-outs.

I would have to question the reliability of this RNG.

I closed your other thread since it seems to be a double post

This discussion about the RNG has been going on for a while. In the other threads this has been discussed a lot.
The main consensus is that the players on PKR are much worse then on other sites. Lots of ppl play their draws till the river. Especially in multiway pots the odds of being beaten is much bigger.

Yep - take a look at pkr games and tell me how many times more than two people get to showdown on the river.... Many times, freuquently with more than three players.

I can't count on one hand how often it happens elsewhere - normally it's two people to a showdown.

Ok, firstly I am not a novice and understand the probabilities of hands in multiplayer pot situations. That is not my concern here, as I have been heads up with one opponent about 95% of my time on PKR while a huge fav in the hands have pushed with one or two cards to come and have ended busted out everytime even to runner runner on 3 occations.
My concern is I am witnessing too many times during games the short stack pushing and getting a single call. If the call is made from a larger stack than the original player pushing all-in the larger of the two stacks will take down the pot even as a huge underdog and subsequently remove the shortstacked player from the game, ready to reload into another SnG or MTT.

I suggest you watch PKR TV and one of the episodes from beginning to end. Count the times that the statement I have made above is correct during the one TV table episode, and evaluate the odds of each of those hands. Statistically it does not hold up to the argument of being truly random.

Ok, after my last post I played a 24 seat MTT.
On a flop of 7-9-5 with one opponent on a bigger stack than mine and a Turn card - 2
I hold 9-7 and pushed all-in with an 'M' of 6.
Opponent calls showing 8-5 .... now it is to the detrement of PKR as a credible poker site that yet again the river threw up the 23/1 shot 5 of hearts.
I can only laugh to myself and use PKR as a bit of fun like one would an X-Box game.

To be honest, for the graphic content PKR could have really become the leader of online poker and been massive as it is very enjoyable to watch PKR as a TV game compared to other 2D sites shown on TV.
It's a shame it's let down by a not the best RnG around.

Okay, say theoretically PKR does have a RNG problem, wouldn't it be easy enough to implement another/better one?.

As you stated, PKR has to be the best poker room out there graphically, and with all of it's bells and whistles, so, again quoting you FoldFish, PKR could have really become the leader of online poker if not for it's RNG.

I myself am not intelligent enough to realize any RNG problems there may be, but now having played PKR for about a year and trying other sites, I can't go back to anything other than PKR. It's just an amazing atmosphere, etc.

To be honest, the RNG goes under the strongest scrutiny and it is indeed declared truely random. However, one thing that does not go through such a test (to my knowledge anyway, I could be wrong) is the shuffling procedure that uses those random numbers.

I have played on many sites and I have to admit, PKR is definitely the most funky. The number of straights and flushes that hit seem out of line with other sites. Just the other day I was witness to a crazy scene in a SnG. First hand one guy gets AA. He raises, gets a couple of callers. The flop looks fairly safe, it's rainbow, no pairs. One guy bets out and the guy with AA pushes all-in. He was insta called. The other guy had called with connectors and flopped a straight. The very NEXT hand, I fall victim to exactly the same to the exact same guy! I get dealt AA and slap in a bigger than usual raise after witnessing what happened. I get 2 callers. The flop is 8-5-4 rainbow. One guy bets out, I raise, he pushes. Unfortunately, most of my chips are now in the middle. I suspect could he have it again and I consider folding, but with only about 300 chips left and the feeling that it can't happen twice on a row, I call. He show 6-7 off suit. So, 2 hands in and AA hits twice at 220-1 each, then 2 straights flop at 76-1 each.

To rub in a bit of salt, I later tried out a few heads up games. I was doing well against one guy and he was down to 500 chips. I get dealt AA, push and he calls. He had Q-9 off suit. The flop? Guess! --- yep, it was 10-J-K. Another flopped straight against AA.

And this seems to happen a lot. In a cash game I was lucky enough to benefit. One guy raised with AK, I called with AQ. The flop was 10-J-K and I took a large amount of his stack. The very next hand he got KK and raised it up to get one caller. All the cash went in on the flop of --- yep, you got it --- 10-J-K. So he hit his trips ... but the guy who called had AQ. lol. I did comment on it at the time that broadway has flopped twice in a row. As I was speaking, the very next hand (yep, I'm not making this up), the flop was 10-J-Q. I laughed and asked who had AK? Well, no one did on this occassion, but someone did have K-9. Yet another big flopped straight.

If you read the PKR site, it does explain their shuffling procedure as this:

If I'm honest, I don't like it and don't understand why they do it that way. They use HUGE numbers to seperate the cards. This means that if a 7 is dealt, even if the next random number is 100,000,000 bigger, the next card could still be a 7 or an 8. So why use 4 billion to seperate just 52 cards?

These are just my thoughts and I certainly have no evidence to back anything up, so it is pure personal opinion. I don't think PKR is rigged, but it very well may not be the best shuffler of cards, which could explain why so many connected cards and flushes hit the board. PKR is playable, mainly because there are a lot of bad players there. But if you do play PKR, just expect and get used to seeing boards like 9-10-J-K-A with 3 or 4 of them suited

Of course, I could be totally wrong

Like I said guys, I am not one of the Online Poker is rigged brigade as I just cannot see any of the sites even dare being caught out and lose their slice of huge profits made. And yes, I think PKR is cracking visually and think it would storm mainstream online Poker TV it would crush SKY's The Open purely because of the life like graphics, and some characters/players would almost certainly become virtual poker stars because of that.
If the same complaints are surfacing time and time again from many different players that the RnG is producing random groupings rather than randon single selection then there must be something wrong somewhere,even though the site is genuine in it's integrity.
I will state, I enjoy the graphic play and will play it for the enjoyment of it visually rather than making any $'s playing, also I want to earn enough points to buy some Sunglasses, I-Pod and a Pork Pie Hat for my character : ) for that reason I am slightly hooked.

Foldfish, I was in the same boat as you (see the thread I posted here a year ago). I went on a huge rant and ended up getting chat banned, banned from the forums, and warned that i'd have my account and my funds totally locked permanently (~$4000). I wasn't a happy bunny!

I was 100% sure the RNG was fixed. I took my cash and moved elsewhere, I started winning again, but on both Full Tilt and Hollywood, it happened again after a few months. Losing to 1-2 outers on every given situation...it went on from Dec 07 to May 08.

I came back here because PKR really does have the internets weakest players - and yes i've had a few bad beats, but i've also had a few incredible suckouts too! (rivered a 1 outer yesterday, but I did put my money in whilst ahead so it wasn't that much of a donk-out).

You may not believe it, but it really is variance.

The only hands I find dodgy at PKR and will always avoid when I flop top or even two pair are one thats straight drawn from the flop. You can almost guarantee the straight will hit for someone, whether on the flop, turn or river.

What you need to understand is that the play here is extremely slow. Most players have no perserverance or patience and are willing to call anything at any raise.
There's no point getting shocked at losing when you have AA, after you get 4-5 people calling your reraise, because with each call, the best hand in poker becomes weaker and weaker! You just have to hope someone raises before your pos so you can reraise x20+, or even push your stack in.

Yesterday for instance, I had 1010 in an early pos, raised x4, short stacker called, then BB reraises x10 (way too weak in the first place, he had AA). I call, short stacker calls. 6h 7h 10d hits the flop.
Guy with AA bets $10, I slow play, call. Short stacker pushes the rest of his money in (around $23). Guy with AA reraises AI.
Short stacker shows 4h 9h and hits his flush on the turn. Says "thanks", and leaves.

1st place, 4h 9h
2nd place, 10 10
3rd place, A A

PF favourite, A A
PF 2nd fave, 10 10
PF 3rd fave, 4h 9h



My point is, if you get anymore than 2 callers when you're holding a premium hand you need to look out because the ones that call the junk will be willing to chase any draw at any price. Flop and preflop aggression is the key to winning here...