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Old 08-11-2007, 05:29 PM
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Default Question: Trips and flush draws

A situation I find myself in frequently and I think I'm playing it wrong.. Picture this (this actually just happened, and is common)

I hold KK
Reasonable raise (3xbb - only 4 left in hand, 6 seater)
Two callers
Flop is Kh xh x

So I have trip Kings (nothing higher than the King on the flop)
There is a flush draw - 2 hearts
Now, I put in a large bet. Large enough to say "get lost if you don't at least have Kings"
Everyone folds

Now the reasoning is obviously that trip K's is nothing against a flush.

Am I being too defensive - are the odds of someone hitting a flush similar to the board pairing (giving me a boat)?

I get the feeling I'm wasting opportunities to win more chips with these hands, but in my experience so far, Slow playing trips can be a costly affair.

BTW: This question is based specifically regarding 2 or 3 at most other people being on the hand. On a large multi-pot I'd definately push hard with my trips on the flop, no questions asked.
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Old 08-11-2007, 05:54 PM
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In my opinion, you are playing them correctly. You have to get rid of possible draws. The only time I can see to slow play trips is if the flop is J-6-2 rainbow or something similiar where no flush draw or straight draw seems possible. I have learnt the hard way that slow playing them can be dangerous. I once had AA, the flop came down A-x-x and I checked to the river and then bet big. The other guy hit a straight on the river. Before the turn and river he had nothing so he would have folded to a bet. Similiar situations have happened to me numerous times when I try to slow play trips so now I only do it if I am fairly sure no draws are out there.

If there are 2 suited cards on the flop and someone has another 2 of them in their hole cards, the odds of them hitting a flush by the river are 2-1. So it is wise to tread with caution in my opinion
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Old 08-11-2007, 06:34 PM
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If you have KK to a Kh xh x flop, and someone has xhxh, they have 7 outs (9 remaining hearts, but 2 of which can pair the board, leaving them 7). That gives them a 30% chance to hit the winning flush by the river, or 2.3 to 1 odds. So, you must take this into account in your betting. In this case, I bet the size of the pot. He does still have pot odds to hit the flush by the river with this bet, but not on the turn. If the turn blanks, he has 7 outs, or 15% chance of hitting the flush. He is about 6-1 to hit the winning flush now. So, when you make a bet this time, you just have to make sure he is not getting 6-1 odds to call (not hard to do). If he calls with bad odds and hits, oh well, you still played your hand correctly, you know how he plays, have notes on him, and can take advantage of his play later.
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Old 08-11-2007, 06:43 PM
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Thanks for the input guys. As I suspected.

I'd add I never think about pot odds when I bet. And I don't think most of the people who play at my level do either. Something I clearly need to learn - though how much it'll be taken into acount by my opponents on 5/10c and 10/25c tables is questionable.
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Old 08-11-2007, 06:47 PM
KingBorgo KingBorgo is offline
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You want them to not take pot odds into account. Every time they call without pot odds, you thank them, for they may as well be donating $ into your account.
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Old 08-11-2007, 06:56 PM
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Thanks Boro.

Correct me if I'm wrong - just to make sure I'm on the right track. Pot odds basically means, for example when I call a bet, that the pot odds should be at least equal to the odds of me hitting a winning hand? Otherwise you'll just lose over time. That bit I'm fairly clear on (If I'm right)

What I've never done is bet a specific amount to make the odds favourable/unfavourable for my opponent.

Edit: I prob have actually, without thinking in terms of specific odds - when I put in a , say, pot sized bet, I'm making it like 2:1 pot odds for him
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Old 08-11-2007, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBorgo View Post
You want them to not take pot odds into account. Every time they call without pot odds, you thank them, for they may as well be donating $ into your account.
Exactly. If they don't take pot odds into account and you give them rubbish odds to call, you will come out on top eventually if they keep calling. Sure they will suck out once or twice, but it won't cover the cost of continuosly calling with bad odds
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Old 10-15-2007, 02:18 PM
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dont overbet the pot with a possible flushdraw, i used to do that but you making things expensive for yourself and if someone hits 4 of the same suit on the flop he will call any bet i think.
So i'd say just bet potsize so if another card of that suit comes down you give yourself a change to get away from the hand cheap.
Also if you overbet the flop people will know you are scared of a flush so you also giving them a change to bluff at it if another one f that suit comes.
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