Okay, so here's my dilemma at the moment....

As some here at PKRNation know, I've been off-line for a couple of months, and have only recently (as in 2 weeks ago) been back online and started playing holdem online again.

I am a purely social player, and have no aspirations of getting rich playing the game. Simply, I find huge entertainment value in online play, and I get a lot of pleasure out of playing a couple of hours over a weekend. For the price of a movie ticket and a box of popcorn, I get 5+ hours of low-cost entertainment, all the fun of the fair at a site like PKR, and can drink beer and burp loudly in the comfort of my own home. I can even watch a movie on telly and nuke a bag of popcorn while playing

That said, I still want to improve my own skill levels and learn about the game whilst playing socially. My standard M.O. over at PKR was/is to play low buy-in MTT's and SNG's. (I'm a crappy online ring game player - much better at it when face-to-face with the opposition.) My concept of "low buy-in" tends to be in the $1 - $5 range. Prior to my off-line sojourn, I felt my game wasn't too bad. I was making the money more often than not. I was enjoying myself and playing at a reasonable standard (in my humble opinion) for my little niche of the PKR world.

So, now I get back online and head to the same sort of tables at PKR to knock some of the off-line rust out of my play. I also made small deposits over at PokerStars and FullTilt via another excellent forum HoldemPokerChat.com (If you haven't yet, I recommend a sign-up there too - tell Fonzi I sent you! ) Like at PKR, I also played a couple of similar small stake tourneys on these sites.

Contrary to my expectations of a little warm-up play and a rebuilding of the basic strategies though, (in preparation for the Spring NSOP!) I have found my game these last two weeks to be poor at best, and completely horrendous on occasions. I'm making lousy calls, playing to the river with the most ridiculous cards, chasing flushes and straights to no avail, hanging myself on low pairs, with entire face families on the board. Just silly stuff. I've even (a real first for me this) experienced my first true tilt moments going from a comfortable chip leader position in an 18-seater tourney to out in 12th place in the space of 3 hands. All three were stupid plays. I knew that as I made them, and made them anyway. The "donkey" accusation I mentioned in another thread could not be more true. Sadly.

So, here's my question: what went wrong? Could a 3-4 month absence make such a difference? Am I approaching the whole thing badly by playing at the low end of the market and seeing my play suffer because of poor opposition at the tables I do play? Should I be playing a higher stake levels - is the level of play at say the $5 - $10 levels that much better? Or am I searching for an easy excuse to explain the fact that the minor level of skill I thought I once had, has in fact left me? If it ever was there in the first place.!

Personally, I'm hoping that a big part of the problem is the level of play that I've been exposing myself to these last 2 weeks - which is one of the reasons that I'm really looking forward to the new series here. Problem is if I don't get out of this rut soonest, I ain't going to have the funds in my PKR account to play in many of them

I've always found the advice of PKRNation regulars to be sound and well reasoned. As such, the thoughts of the collective here would be much appreciated.

__________________

Had to edit my post - if you type the name of the device that nukes the popcorn gets you.....

micro

__________________

Could just be you're on a down-swing, I get them quite a lot, where I can't hit a f+++ing thing! For me these can last a couple of days.
When I can't win a bean I usually go down to the lowest possible stakes and try to ride it out. The problem with playing ultra low stakes though, is I find it effects my game, like you I find myself making daft calls, chasing flushes and straights when the hand should be folded, I reckon it's the old "well it only cost me $1 to enter so what the hell !" attitude. What you (and I for that matter) need to do is try and play our 'A' game, even on the low money tables.
Also, hitting the books never hurts.

Good luck and I hope things improve soon.....

If you are making silly calls and chasing long shots, but you used to fair reasonably (I'm guesing you are losing consistently now as you refer to a night's play "costing you a movie ticket" etc)... it sounds like you are lacking in patience - perhaps you've returned eager to get back on form and are rushing it? This happened to me once - I also got ahead of myself and played above my ability and lost for a while (think "big headed" lol) - nothing to do with stakes, I was trying to play too fancy.

I'm back in the saddle now after a long break and am nearly back to my old skill level - I'm a profitable player, albeit we are talking $100's not $1000's. The key thing I've noticed after a stint of absence is that patience is still king. At this stage don't try and be the clever guy stealing all the blinds and trying to pull off all-in bluffs. Let other people make those moves and sit back until you have the odds well in your favour.

Out of the handful of SnGs Ive played over the last week (about 2 to 4 a day) on 4 occassions I went down to minimal chips and then came back to win or place 2nd. One time I was down to 155 chips with those all around me with 2k plus, and won, another time down to 200 chips with 4 of us left (on the bubble) and came back to take 1st. How did I do this? I was patient, very patient! - you have to resist the urge to push all in because "what's the point in continuing? I only have 175 left - it's futile" - you have to be patient and pick the best possible spot (usually when there are enough people in to treble or quadruple up in one hand - this is a desparation move of course, but far better to get right back in the game than to move from 175 to 350 chips and see the next 300BB undo all that work)

Another classic tell tale sign of impatience is going all-in early on in the game on a good draw. This makes sense in a ring game as you should always play favourable pot odds with the right cards, but in SnGs there are a LOT of times it's better to get out of the way and let the others take each other out. Somtimes I can play a SnG and be close to my starting stack after 40 minutes - it's no problem - the one right hand can see your sail away into the lead in a matter of seconds. Of course sometimes you get lucky and double up early, but again, you must be patient. It's very easy to get too loose after this and lose all your winnings and get back to your starting chips again. I don't start playing big-stack poker until there are 5 or less people left, and even then I am very careful to make sure I get out fast if I run into stiff opposition.

Somthing else occurred to me the other day. When playing SnG (and MTTs) you have to be careful not to be "blinded" by the odds of hitting. In a cash game, if you get 2:1 odds to hit your flush draw by the river and the pot odds are 4:1 it's an easy call. You cannot ignore the odds long term. BUT - in SnGs (and MTTs) good odds are less compelling when you know it will result in an all-in show down. Why? because odds are not a guarantee - you are not guaranteed to get your flush once in every 3 hands. You might have a spell of missing for 12 hands in a row. And the crucial thing here, is that if you miss, you are outta the game! finito! - think long and hard before putting all your chips on the line when you are "only" favourite to win but have made nothing yet.

For the patience factor, I play 2 SnGs at the same time - one on Carbon - a regular 10 seat $11SnG, and one on Cake, a $5 SnG Turbo. This keeps me interested when one of the tables grinds to a halt and because they are 2 very different types of game they kind of compliment each other. One slow table requiring patience, and a fast table for a bit more "fun".

I also think that MTTs are not good for the ego if you are not playing such a hot game at the moment. They require UBER patience and a lot of skill around the bubble and afterwards if you have any hope of a top 10 seat. And they play very diffrently from SnGs.

Hope some of that helps.
(p.s. I realised how important patience is last week when I was equal chip leader with 4 players left and I called an unprevoked all-in with my AK off. He had 10 10 and I missed. Out of the game with no money for a call I really had no business making in a SnG)

Hellwung, Dodgey

Thanks both for your replies - definitely helps to get a little outsider perspective.

Two things become clear:

1. I ain't alone! Seems to be a lot of players go through similar phases at times. My feeling is now that if I perserver and stick with it, I should be able to ride this down-swing out, and will get my mojo back! Yes Dr. Evil. I will get my mojo back!
2. I need to re-learn the art of patience at the table. As I read through Dodgey's post this point jumps out like at me like a flasher on a busy street corner. I've been making myself guilty of pretty much all of the impatient player signs you mention. Going all-in as a low stack with a marginal hand because I'm so far down I may as well go for broke. Being blinded by the outside odds of something hitting, and chasing it to death. All of it. I realise now that if I calm things down a bit, start the early hands when playing tourneys the way I used to - slow, steady, solid as a rock, and occassionally even tighter than the proverbial nuns' ..... - then I may just help myself back onto the road to recovery.

Thanks again guys! Hope to see you at the NSOP tourney tonight.

Thoughts from (and for) others are still more than welcome.

__________________

As usual, great post from you Gee.

I've had similar downswings so I'll offer up some simple advice. Chances are you're playing a little too loose. You should be playing about 25% of your hands or slightly less. Pokerstars will give you detailed stats per session.

Also, if you're playing to the river, Are you value betting on the river or just checking? I'm not saying this always works, but a nice size river bet will often get the other player to fold. Only do this when it's 1 on 1, don't try it with 4 people in the pot. chances are someone will call.

Test out your game play by playing $1 SnG's. This way you will limit your loses.

And lastly, patience ..... patience ..... patience

__________________
Use Bonus Code: PKRN50 with your first PKR deposit and get $250 free.



Visit our other websites...
Casino Games - Online Slots - PKR Poker Bonus Codes - Poker Forums - Cake Poker Rakeback -- PKR Casino - Carbon Poker - Casino Forum

Thanks for the words of support Nation - much appreciated, and taken to heart. Well, almost

Okay, so it didn't go too great at the NSOP tourney this evening.

Got my QQ busted by rockets after sitting out every hand to that point, about 10-12 hands into the tourney (patience!). Saw another set of AA on the same table a little later, and saw ashkendall, who was chip leading by far at that stage, mention he had picked up rockets twice at his earlier table. No shame in going down to Aces I guess, but I should have folded the big raise on the flop (loss of patience!)

I managed then to hang on to my (very!) small stack of 150 chips for another loop round the table. Big blind handed me AK suited, so had to call the small raises that came round, putting me all-in. Two other mid-stack players then called all-in! First shows QQ, other KQ suited. I'm in with a vague chance of survival, but by the ironies of poker, the same hand that lost me the bulk of my chips early on now landed up being the one that took me out. My dad always told me that you should never trust two women together!

Placed 26 out of the 32, so I guess it could have been worse - could've beena gonna at #32!

I'll be back next week. And I will be folding anything with a Q in it!

__________________

The Hilton sisters will do that to you. But they're also hard to fold.

Just keep working on your patience and reads. Avoid slow playing good cards (they'll call your raise). When you do hit the nuts, play them aggressively.

As for me, I haven't played a serious game in over a month and I don't plan to anytime soon. I'm giving my mind a rest before making a WSOP run. in the meantime, I'm reading poker books and trying to absorb some knowledge and good habits.

If you get a chance, go out and get Slanksys Theory of Poker. Pay particluar attention to playing position. Yeah poker books are boring to read, but a chapter before bed or while sitting on the throne can do wonders for your game.

__________________
Use Bonus Code: PKRN50 with your first PKR deposit and get $250 free.



Visit our other websites...
Casino Games - Online Slots - PKR Poker Bonus Codes - Poker Forums - Cake Poker Rakeback -- PKR Casino - Carbon Poker - Casino Forum

I agree...
but they are always fun to watch

Here is a good example of patience. A 10$SNG I played (and won) last night. It's not great poker by any means - I know I'm sometimes too passive, but it shows good patience.

A couple of points... I made a very daft call from an all-in preflop with QJ off - I assumed the guy was trying to blind steal. He had KK. The stupid thing is I had him marked as mega tight. I noticed right AFTER I hit the call button. Doh (I made the call as he only had 900 odd chips left and smelt desparation - this was long into the game and we were all well ahead)

One of the chaps went on an all-in "spree" I just ducked and let him grab a few blinds until someone else took him out. It always happens eventually.

I folded 71 hands either preflop or post flop with a crap flop. I never went to showdown with lot of chips unless I was happy I had the right read. (apart from the 1 daft call)

I won 30 hands that I got involved in - that sounds like a lot but bear in mind that includes the games with just 3 and 2 of us which makes up a lot of wins - blind stealing etc.

I placed a lot of value bets on the river when there was a lot of checking going on (towards the end when the field had thinned - I dont do this much with a full table). This paid off. I won far more than I lost, though of course I was forced to fold sometimes after an aggressive re-raise.

You can't see the timings, but one of the hands I won was because someone raised super-immediately after a preflop raise. It was such a give away - I called his bluff.

Heads up was easy. She'd fold weak cards to any raise. Once you spot that it's game over for them.

Coversely, I played a $5 turbo 6-seater at the same time and was knocked out after 15 mins. My trip 6's met a slow played AA that turned into a full house. Nothing you can do about that.

Attached Files

HH20080211 $10 NL Hold'em.zip (7.3 KB, 4 views)